HomeMy WebLinkAbout2021/02/22 - ADMIN - Minutes - City Council - Study Session Official minutes
City council study session
St. Louis Park, Minnesota
Feb. 22, 2021
The meeting convened at 6:30 p.m.
Councilmembers present: Mayor Jake Spano, Tim Brausen, Lynette Dumalag, Rachel Harris,
Larry Kraft, Nadia Mohamed, and Margaret Rog
Councilmembers absent: none
Staff present: City Manager (Mr. Harmening), City Attorney (Mr. Mattick), Deputy City
Manager/Human Resources Director (Ms. Deno), HR Manager (Ms. Timpone), Police Chief
Harcey, Deputy Chief Kruelle, Lt. Nadem, Senior Management Analyst (Ms. Solano), Racial
Equity Manager (Mx. Sojourner)
Guests: Anne Lewis, Baker Tilly; Mark Casey, DBA; Charlene Stevens, GovHR; Joelle Allen, KP
Companies; Mr. Sorrell, consultant
1. City manager recruitment
Ms. Timpone noted there were 4 proposals for search firms on the city manager recruitment.
Each firm will present for 5 minutes each and the council will ask questions and have a
discussion after all the presentations.
Anne Lewis stated she is a director with Baker Tilly Firm. She explained their work is nation-
wide, including in Minnesota. She noted they have a diverse team and provide a diverse
applicant pool. She stated they are experienced and passionate about local government and
have recruited and placed over 1,500 positions over the years. She noted they believe in
diversity and will work to establish a timeline with staff in finding high-quality candidates.
Mark Casey stated he is with DBA Human Resources. He stated he would be the principal
recruiter and serves on various boards in Minnesota and lectures. He stated 50% of applicants
come from outside Minnesota. He noted St. Louis Park is a place for all people adding his firm
will promote a deep and diverse pool of candidates and will work to find the best fit for the city
while listening to what the council is saying. He added he is a former city manager in St.
Anthony Village, and has worked in city government adding this search would be his number
one priority.
Charlene Stevens is from GovHR and she is the principal consultant and has worked in various
areas of city government. She stated the firm is a female-owned business and works nationwide
and locally to bring candidates and everyone in their firm has served in local government. She
stated they work with women and diverse candidates in local government leadership ro les. She
added they have a commitment to communication with council and staff and are very
responsive to both the council and candidates.
Joelle Allen from KP companies stated they create a more personalized search firm. She stated
they work across the nation and across sectors. She noted they have done this work for 18
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years and pride themselves in high touch with their clients and candidates. She stated she has
been with KP since it started, and it is a women and black-owned firm. She noted searches they
have done for the cities of Minneapolis and St. Paul adding they want to understand the
communities they work with as well as the council, and work in focus groups to engage councils
and groups, to find candidates that represent that community. She stated diversity and
inclusion is baked into all that they do, and they are keenly aware of the role of systemic racism
and make sure that all slates are diverse, and they are highly engaged with many sectors,
communities, and groups, and will leverage those relationships on the city’s behalf.
Councilmember Brausen stated the city would be well-suited to work with any of the firms. He
asked about doing 360 follow up reviews and if all the firms do this. They each stated they do.
Councilmember Brausen asked if the firms use IDI assessments with candidates to look at their
diversity and inclusion experience. Ms. Allen stated they use this diversity tool at her firm, and
the others have not used it, but said they would be able to utilize it .
Councilmember Rog asked Mr. Casey why his Minnesota work and headquarters are important
to the outcomes. Mr. Casey stated he has connections within Minnesota at League of
Minnesota Cities and other groups which helps draw quality candidates from Minnesota and
from other areas.
Councilmember Rog asked the firms about Minnesota culture and if they have thoughts on
that.
Mr. Casey stated this is a culture he knows well adding it is also changing. He stated they would
look for the right person.
Ms. Allen stated their business is based in St. Louis Park, and knows firsthand this is a difficult
place to crack sometimes and requires some different onboarding for candidates . They also
work with diverse candidates that are not from here and offer support.
Ms. Stevens stated she did relocate here from out of Minnesota. She stated she knows what it
is like to move here from elsewhere and can help in that transition.
Ms. Lewis stated she is not from Minnesota, but they work on a recruitment team and she
would rely on them to navigate understanding of M innesota culture.
Councilmember Kraft asked Ms. Lewis what concerns the city would have for running a search
from Virginia, especially related to salaries. Ms. Lewis stated the technology to conduct a search
and work with clients can be done. She stated she spends time with council at the onset getting
to understand the council and city and leadership characteristics that are wanted. She added
the difficult part is attracting a diverse candidate pool and encouraging them to move to
Minnesota.
Councilmember Kraft asked Mr. Casey about being a recent hire of DBA, if he was doing search
before this, and with all DBA’s Minnesota experience, does it take people off the table. Mr.
Casey stated he just moved from the public sector to this position and will work with a team at
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DBA. He stated they have a database of applicants and 50% come from outside of M innesota,
so the pool will be very deep.
Councilmember Kraft asked what the best practice is in engaging the community.
Ms. Allen stated expectations have changed about how involved communities want to be in
these searches. She added focus groups are helpful with this and are a great gauge, adding that
information can be brought to council and then act on that information.
Ms. Stevens added the outreach needs to be tailored to the community and opportunities need
to be created to have broad engagement and developing a profile.
Mr. Casey added the most efficient use of his firm’s time would be to work through resources
that already exist through visioning sessions conducted in the past.
Ms. Lewis stated surveys, focus groups, and other means can all be used. She stated they would
tailor interview questions the community has and their concerns as well as having
representatives of the community give feedback as well.
Councilmember Dumalag asked about the August 1 timeline and if the city is on track with this.
Ms. Lewis stated the timeline is great and she anticipates a mid-June timeline, adding focus
groups might add a few more weeks.
Ms. Stevens stated August is very realistic for her firm.
Ms. Allen stated the August timeline works well and Mr. Casey agreed also.
Councilmember Dumalag stated she has been part of search groups in the past and asked how
this should be approached as a council and as a team.
Mr. Casey recommended that each and everyone of the council be involved in the process and
in the final choice as well.
Ms. Lewis stated she would like a staff person dedicated to her to organize documents and
candidates’ schedules with interviews. She would keep the council informed and use email to
communicate to help in decision making.
Ms. Stevens stated they would work with a staff person as well and have the whole council be
involved in the full process. She stated her firm can work through any open meeting process the
council prefers, and the full council will need to be involved, while confidentiality maintained.
Ms. Allen agreed, adding her firm works with a point of contact, makes sure the council is
involved, and works with a subcommittee as well all while keeping confidentiality.
Councilmember Harris asked how the firms establish and account for a city’s culture.
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Ms. Allen stated they do focus groups at all levels and learn about the city’s culture.
Mr. Casey added meeting one-on-one with council and key staff will help them learn and
communicate the culture to candidates.
Ms. Lewis stated they also have one-on-one conversations with each councilmember to gain a
sense of culture of the city to help create a candidate pool that best matches the city.
Ms. Stevens added conversations and listening with council and staff , learning the organization,
and also how she matches candidates’ skills with the city.
Councilmember Harris asked what the ideal number of candidates is to bring forward and why.
Ms. Stevens stated it depends on the candidate pool adding there is no spe cific number she
uses. She stated it is tailored to the city’s needs and what they are looking for.
Ms. Lewis agreed and stated her candidate pools vary in size and it is important she find
alternatives in the selection process. She added as she narrows the candidates down, the
process is very fluid to match the city’s needs.
Mr. Casey agreed also and stated he works to meet the city’s needs as well.
Ms. Allen stated it depends on how involved the council wants to be at each level of candidates
and customized on what the council needs.
Councilmember Harris stated there were a number of screening tools listed that the firms use
and asked what tools would be utilized to determine best fit and are their additional fees
beyond the quoted prices listed in your proposals, pertaining to those tools.
Ms. Allen stated if there are screening tools the city typically uses they start there and work
with suppliers the city already works with. She added they can also add IDI or Strengthbuilders,
noting it is customized and comparative.
Ms. Lewis stated they offer several tools, and all candidates respond to a questionnaire, related
to the city itself. She also offers a video interview for candidates and an assessment is done
with the council and candidates and then overlay where gaps fall, so interview questions can be
developed. She added all tools are included in their fees.
Ms. Stevens stated they work with the city on tools they want to use, as well as video
interviews.
Mr. Casey stated they do profiles and interviews which are all included in the price and can also
use what the city prefers.
Councilmember Mohamed stated the new city manager coming on will be during a new era .
She stated the racial equity department of the city helps with this in all area s of the city, but as
the council moves forward, she wants racial equity to be a part of all areas of what staff and the
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city do, beginning with the city manager. She asked what the number of diverse people is
working within each firm.
Mr. Casey stated DBA has 12 employees and none are people of color. Ms. Lewis stated their
public sector area has 3 people of color and 7 females. Ms. Stevens stated they have 31
consultants and 5 persons of color and 50% are women. Ms. Allen stated they have 8 persons
which are women and of color and 70% are diverse.
Councilmember Mohamed stated it is difficult for people of color to succeed in Minnesota,
adding they have come a long way, especially in St. Louis Park. She asked how they plan to bring
diverse candidates to Minnesota.
Ms. Lewis stated they use a database to select candidates and utilize advertising outlets. She
added they also do outreach into the associations and networks they work with as well as
phone calls.
Mr. Casey stated his firm will work with the city’s profile and that is how they reach out to
databases and work with their contacts, adding that many will be interested in this position ,
and they will help them understand what the city is looking for.
Ms. Allen stated she does not see trouble finding candidates, but the higher concern is after
getting a candidate hired, how can they keep them. She stated if they understand change
management, it helps across the board, and that will be an important part of the process .
Ms. Stevens agreed with what the other firms stated and added they will work to bring diverse
candidates adding the retention piece is important as well and will be important for staff to
work on as well.
Mayor Spano stated if council did not decide tonight on which firm, would a two-week delay
impact the timeline. The firm representatives each stated this would not be a problem.
Mayor Spano asked about the firms interviewing staff and if they could explain how they view
the existing staff as this person will need to work closely with staff.
Ms. Lewis stated she would definitely speak with staff and ask the same questions she would
ask of council. She added she would use this information to help with searching candidates.
Mr. Casey agreed, as did Ms. Stevens. and Ms. Allen.
Mayor Spano asked about a time a search did not go well and what did you learn from that.
Ms. Allen stated with COVID she learned how flexible they needed to be and how important
partnerships with city staff were and how important communication was, as well as
transparency. Ms. Allen stated also not fully preparing candidates for the cultural shift it might
take to come to this area. She stated learning through that is owning the culture and better
preparing candidates for the reality that this cultur e is quite different from the south.
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Ms. Stevens stated an example where a candidate was not a good fit and owning that and
understanding it and pushing back on the organization also, so they understood what they
wanted.
Mr. Casey noted a time when a timeline got pushed out, adding it should not have affected the
process especially if qualified candidates are presented.
Ms. Lewis noted an example where a competitive salary was not offered and how this could
have been compensated outside of salary and would have been beneficial to recruitment.
Councilmember Rog asked Ms. Allen why her firms’ proposal is 3 times the amounts of the
other firms. Ms. Allen stated this is standard to be a percentage of first year salary and because
diversity is a different search and requires different tools. She added they would be able to
discuss this further and would not want to miss this project because of cost.
Councilmember Rog asked why Ms. Allen did not provide a candidate brochure. Ms. Allen
stated they use them, but she neglected to add one.
Councilmember Rog asked if it makes sense for the council to indicate they would like a certain
number of candidates be people of color, or women, or men, and if this would be an option .
Ms. Deno had stated no numbers or quotas are acceptable but setting up a profile related to
diversity and inclusion requirements can help when working with the firm to find pools of
candidates. This along with the city’s strategic priorities would help, she added .
Councilmember Rog asked why Ms. Allen’s firm’s guarantee was only 6 months versus 1-2 years
for the other firms. Ms. Allen stated this is standard, but they do stand behind candidates and
she would be happy to extend that to one year if the council prefers.
Councilmember Kraft asked Ms. Stevens how her firm would overcome technology issues when
working with the council and candidates, noting there were some technology issue when she
was giving her presentation. Ms. Stevens apologized for the technology not working this
evening and stated she would have it all working correctly.
Councilmember Kraft asked how internal candidates would be incorporated.
Ms. Allen stated they always do interviews with internal candidates to ensure a fair and
equitable process.
Ms. Stevens agreed adding they will also give a fair and honest assessment of the candidate .
Ms. Lewis agreed adding they put all internal candidates through the same process as external
candidates.
Mr. Casey added he agreed and that is where that level of confidentiality comes in as well.
Councilmember Brausen appreciated the firm candidates and thanked them for their interest .
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The firms’ representatives all left the meeting, and the council began their discussion.
Mayor Spano asked if the council wants to make a decision tonight or hold off.
Councilmember Harris would like to wait until next week to make a decision . She asked staff if
KP would come down in price to come in line with the other three firms. Ms. Timpone will ask
all 4 companies to come down in price.
Councilmember Harris asked if we should ask for a 1-year onboarding. Ms. Timpone stated that
is up to the council to create that process and that can be addressed later.
Councilmember Harris asked what the budget is for hiring a firm. Ms. Timpone stated there is
enough in the budget – at least $23,000 unspent and other funds that can be used as well .
Ms. Deno added there are some contingency funds available also, and whichever firm is chosen
by the council, staff can make this work.
Councilmember Harris and Mayor Spano would like to wait one week to decide.
Councilmember Rog stated she would like to discuss this tonight . Ms. Deno stated council can
give staff direction tonight and it would not require formal action by the council ; however,
formal action can be taken at next week’s meeting if council prefers.
Ms. Timpone stated there are four great firms here and encouraged council to not let budget
become a factor. She stated the most important thing is the development of a profile and every
firm will provide a good candidate pool. She added KP Companies will likely provide a deeper
and more non-traditional applicant pool and the other three are all similar. She noted having a
local rep is important. She recommended KP Companies and GovHR as her top
recommendations to the council.
Councilmember Kraft stated Baker Tilly is the most professional and polished proposal and not
so personal. DBA spoke most about what is happening in St. Louis Park, but he is new at this .
KP Companies had very interesting experience on diversity side and more backgrounds, but the
structure of her proposal says they do not have the experience in doing a public sector search.
He noted GovHR had technology issues but added they provided specific answers and with
numbers of searches, and data, without being asked and he appreciated that level of specificity .
He was impressed with that and the fact they had done many searches in Minnesota.
Councilmember Mohamed was happy to hear from all the firms, but she felt KP Companies will
do a deeper search and a better job for St. Louis Park. She is not worried about cost and she
was happy the city is able to afford this and she does not think council should go back and ask
them to lower prices. She added she agreed with the thinking of KP Companies and where they
will lead the city.
Councilmember Dumalag stated she has concerns with KP Companies, the number was way out
of line, they do not do this work that often, and she cannot grasp why their quote was so
different. She liked GovHR and the stats she had, the technical approach, and she was honest
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on the problem question posed. She added the council will want to direct any of the firms to
have a deep and wide pool and she leans toward GovHR.
Councilmember Rog agreed on the two firms of KP Companies and GovHR. She has concerns
about KP not matching the caliber of what the city needs, especially never having done a city
manager search. She added the high cost and lack of including a brochure shows possibly not a
lot of experience in this area. She stated she was impressed with all the firms, but she also is in
favor of GovHR.
Councilmember Harris stated she rated the experience of each firm and she landed on KP and
GovHR at the top. She added she understands the costs can be covered, but she has concerns
about KP’s answer about corporate, and this is not corporate, noting it is important to know the
audience for the presentation, as well as the work. Councilmember Harris appreciated how
GovHR framed concepts. She added KP uses IDI indicator tools and asked if the city could
request whoever is chosen to use IDI. She is comfortable with GovHR.
Councilmember Brausen like Baker Tilly for their professionalism but would like something
more locally. Mr. Casey is too new at doing this, although he has the local connections and
experience in local government. He liked that KP uses the IDI tool, but given the council’s
preference with GovHR, he is comfortable going with them.
Mayor Spano agreed on the comments about the IDI tool. He also had concerns about the KP
Companies price and noted they do not have experience hiring a city manager, but he is partial
to KP Companies. He is willing to take a risk on KP but feels they are smart and capable of the
job and will bring a diverse and deep pool of candidates.
Councilmember Kraft was not concerned about the dollar amount of KP Companies, but the
way they did not understand the recruitment process.
Mayor Spano stated because their proposal was different is not because they do not get it, it is
that they just do it differently.
Councilmember Kraft stated except her answer was that they would lower their price, and he
wished it would have been that they are at this cost because they do it differently.
Ms. Timpone stated the 3 other companies matched each other and are similar. She stated KP
will do the same work, but they might do it differently. She added staff can help and support
their work and she did not find the proposal to be too divergent from the others. She felt it was
done with more thought to the city versus what the others did.
Councilmember Mohamed stated historically lower experience is why black and brown
companies do not always get business. Mayor Spano agreed, as did Councilmember Rog.
Councilmember Rog asked how KP’s proposal is more unique than the others. Ms. Timpone
stated they asked for a little more time to put the onboarding piece together and it just struck
her that they did this specifically for the city versus using a template.
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Councilmember Rog asked about the plans for Mx. Sojourner’s replacement as well, and if a
search will be done also.
Ms. Deno stated HR will do the search with input from Mx. Sojourner.
Councilmember Mohamed asked to what standard are we holding KP Companies to and is it a
certain standard are we holding the proposals to , when we ask about ways that proposals were
submitted. She asked council to reflect on this.
Councilmember Brausen stated he appreciated Councilmember Mohamed’s perspective on
this. He added he is comfortable hiring any of the 4.
Councilmember Dumalag also appreciated Councilmember Mohamed’s comments. She stated
the city is hiring a search firm, but all KP Companies experience was not in city government . She
stated she was really impressed with Baker Tilly’s placements. She added it was not number,
but scale that was concerning for her.
Councilmember Harris stated she appreciated Councilmember Mohamed’s comments , it helped
her reorder her choices, and agreed this is important to the city during this time.
Ms. Deno asked if council would like KP Companies and GovHR to resubmit information and
then have council decide on Monday, March 1.
Councilmember Kraft appreciated Councilmember Mohamed’s comments. He stated he did not
notice KP Companies did not submit a brochure. He stated he is not interested in asking for a
lower price on KP Companies and is interested in GovHR. He stated he would like to use KP
Companies at a different time.
It was the consensus of the council to move forward with GovHR as their search firm for the city
manager position.
Mayor Spano asked if KP Companies has interest in being involved in the process in some way,
he would be comfortable with that.
2. Policing discussion- continued
Mr. Sorrell presented to the council, noting themes, areas, and actions.
Deputy Chief Kruelle noted in 2019 body cams were introduced in the city and audits and daily
reviews are conducted.
Lt. Nadem explained training sessions on racial equity impacts were conducted for the police
force.
Chief Harcey noted the response to resistance report and the intent related to the outcomes .
He stated some changes were made to the process, including documenting residents and non-
residents. Chief Harcey explained fully implementing the 8 Can’t Wait policy and stated it is now
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on the city website. Chief Harcey also noted data used, including weekly and monthly updates
to council and trends over time as well as looking at last year v ersus this year data.
Councilmember Kraft asked if blue means completed. Mr. Sorrell stated it means completed
and on track.
Councilmember Kraft stated he did not hear why more African Americans are subject to use of
force. Chief Harcey stated an outside consultant could help police research this item.
Councilmember Kraft stated that when he saw that as completed, he felt it is not yet
completed. Mr. Sorrell stated there will be a deeper conversation related to this topic, noting
there are many components at play here.
Lt. Garland addressed the role of police in achieving mental health outcomes.
Mayor Spano asked about the embedded social worker versus co-responders. Chief Harcey
stated this is similar to the fire department model, assisting on calls as needed. He stated the
co-responder is having the licensed social worker with police 24/7 .
Mayor Spano asked about co-responders versus Hennepin County social workers, and if they
would be working in the department. Chief Harcey stated he would like to have a full-time
social worker devoted to St. Louis Park, and would like to see them in the car with police more
often.
Councilmember Rog asked about the 232 referrals over the last 12 months and asked whether
it is possible to get more information on referrals to help understand how the city is doing, and
if the weekly reports could have more detail around the mental health information. Chief
Harcey stated outcomes of the referrals is private data, but some might be able to be shared.
Councilmember Harris asked about the 232 referrals and how many were repeat clients. Chief
Harcey stated he will need to get back to council on that information.
Councilmember Harris stated this data would help households in need of these services. She
asked if there is overlap with the fire departments visitation program and if there is an overlap
that could involve the police also.
Chief Harcey stated they will be onboarding a new person soon to partner with Fire related to
this issue.
Councilmember Harris asked if the police have the resources they need for training at this time .
Chief Harcey stated there is always room for more resources, but it is included in the budget.
Councilmember Harris stated this information would be helpful to know during budget time.
Deputy Chief Kruelle explained details on alternative models for policing.
Chief Harcey noted information on effectiveness of school partnerships, with school resource
officers and the DARE curriculum no longer being taught by the police department.
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Councilmember Kraft stated it seems more needs to be done in other columns before
addressing the items in the red column. Chief Harcey stated this will be a long-term ongoing
conversation with council.
Mr. Sorrell will provide a more concise packet for the next session.
Councilmember Brausen agreed and indicated he appreciates the willingness in the police to be
engaged in these discussions and continuing to try to learn how to improve.
Mayor Spano also stated this conversation is about working together with the police to help
determine resources that are needed to move forward.
Due to time limitations, it was the consensus of the council to table this conversation and move
it to a future study session.
3. Future study session agenda planning and prioritization - none
Communications/meeting check-in (verbal)
Mr. Harmening noted target protesting information was discussed earlier and in 1976 an
ordinance was adopted by the city regarding this. He stated it does however need updating.
The meeting adjourned at 10:07 p.m.
Written Reports provided and documented for recording purposes only:
4 January 2021 monthly financial report
5. Conversion therapy
______________________________________ ______________________________________
Melissa Kennedy, city clerk Jake Spano, mayor
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