HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005/11/14 - ADMIN - Minutes - City Council - Study Session SIST.ILOU°IFSOFFICIAL MINUTES
RK CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION
November 14, 2005
The meeting convened at 6:32 p.m.
Councilmembers present: John Basill, Phil Finkelstein, Paul Omodt, Susan Sanger, Sue Santa
and Mayor Jeff Jacobs.
Councilmember Jim Brimeyer was absent.
Staff present: City Manager(Mr. Harmening), Community Development Director(Mr. Locke),
Economic Development Coordinator(Mr. Hunt), Housing Program Coordinator(Ms. Larsen),
Planning/Zoning Supervisor(Ms. McMonigal) and Recording Secretary(Ms. Stegora-Peterson).
1. Children First Update
The youth involved with Children First introduced themselves (Alana, Nick, Dana, Anna, Sonya
and Ericka).
Alana discussed Children First and the youth performed a skit based on the 40 assets. It was
noted that they meet monthly and others can attend.
Karen Atkinson indicated that the Youth Development committee held a retreat to train
children to do interviews with their peers.
Jeannie Bloomquist noted training was also done for the Student Advisory Council.
Ms. Atkinson indicated that St. Louis Park had been named one of the 100 Best Communities
for Children by America's Promise. She reported on the celebration held in Washington.
Mayor Jacobs believed they needed to build assets, but they also needed to continue as
children grow older. He noticed asset building in St. Louis Park kids. High school youth
were connecting with younger kids and he was very proud.
2. Excess Land
Ms. Larsen reported they reviewed input from the public meeting and will bring a final
recommendation to the 12/5 Council meeting. They could group all actions together or
separate some.
Councilmember Sanger preferred to vote on them individually. They needed to discuss
additional critena. The task force criteria that was a good start, but it wasn't complete.
Councilmember Basill believed some parcels were not controversial and could be grouped.
Others needed more discussion.
Study Session Minutes -2- November 14, 2005
Councilmember Finkelstein agreed. There were four parcels that were in dispute. He asked
what criteria Councilmember Sanger was looking for? Councilmember Sanger replied, in
addition to the task force critena: 1) Environmental impacts (wetlands,potential tree and
vegetation loss, concerns about wildlife and other natural resources); 2)Neighborhood
perspective; and, 3) Potential flooding issues.
Ms. Larsen indicated that the task force came up with cnteria to evaluate if the parcels should
be used for single-family homes. The issue is the value judgment between the best use of the
parcels, such as homes, open space or something else.
Councilmember Basill indicated a valid concern was if the parcel was accessible to the public
and character to the larger neighborhood. A parcel at a park provides more public use.
Councilmember Santa asked for the definition of public? Councilmember Basill replied a
parcel that the neighborhood used.
Councilmember Santa asked who the public was? Councilmember Basill replied an example
would be pocket parks. Not everyone uses them,but the entire neighborhood does. That was
the public use he was refemng to.
Councilmember Santa indicated one of the speakers at the public hearing that made an
impression on her was the lady who talked about not having a park in her neighborhood and
driving her kids to a park, those were the people she was thinking about.
Councilmember Finkelstein stated this wasn't about the money, although one idea could be
to use the money from the land sales to encourage people to add on to their homes.
Councilmember Santa believed they had not done as much as they could have for wetlands
and the creek and could put extra effort into looking at the highest use to enhance them.
Councilmember Sanger stated people were asking questions about the use of the money and
they needed to provide answers. Mayor Jacobs replied that would be another process later on
such as a public task force. He was not comfortable saying where it would go at this time.
Councilmember Sanger believed they needed to provide people with some kind of an answer.
Government operations get more expensive, they needed a larger budget discussion to talk
about what they were doing.
Mayor Jacobs thought they could group the ones without controversy and do the others individually.
Mr. Harmening clarified that the parcels that would be voted on individually were: 3 (2600 Natchez),
17 (5609 Wood Lane) and 18 (4525 Morningside).
Councilmember Sanger believed the parcel being used as the dog park also needed to be included.
Mayor Jacobs noted that might be deferred until it was more definitive.
Study Session Minutes -3- November 14, 2005
Mr. Locke stated if not used as a dog park, they could sell it. They did not know the time
frame for the dog park.
Councilmember Sanger suggested a separate category for items that would be deferred,
including the Wood Lane site because of the Watershed District.
Councilmember Basill felt they should keep it on the list of properties to be taken separately.
Mr. Harmening indicated they could provide one resolution including the parking lots and
parcels that were acceptable for sale and do three separate resolutions for the sites that
required more discussion.
Councilmember Santa noted that the Watershed District didn't have the Wood Lane site
scheduled for discussion at this time.
Mayor Jacobs suggested that the resolution include a sunset provision allowing six months.
Councilmember Finkelstein believed this was an opportunity to put something such as a
landing on the creek.
Councilmember Basill indicated they may not have an answer from the Watershed Distnct
on Wood Lane, but the City had not proactively approached the Watershed District either.
Mr. Harmening indicated they would use the task force recommendations.
Councilmember Sanger believed if they used those, it would appear that they hadn't heard
anything. They should present two or more options on the controversial parcels.
Mayor Jacobs suggested they provide two drafts, one to sell and the other not to sell.
Councilmember Sanger asked if they voted not to sell, what happens? Could a parcel be
added to a park or protected? Future Councils should be aware of the decision. Mr.
Harmening responded they would need to determine what they wanted to do with it.
Councilmember Sanger commented on the Cedar Lake Rd parcel there was a concern about
blocking views. Criteria could be to limit the size of the proposed homes to one story.
Mayor Jacobs indicated they needed to have design standards and make sure homes would be
in character with the neighborhood.
Councilmember Finkelstein noted in the staff report a section regarding design.
Councilmember Sanger indicated one parking lot appeared as though it would not have
public access. They should all be accessible to the public.
Study Session Minutes -4- November 14, 2005
Mr. Locke indicated that was the site of the former Treasure Island. There is a possibility of
the City selling it to a developer, with a caveat that surrounding parcels have access to the
parking lot.
Councilmember Sanger had a concern about the way it was worded.
Councilmember Basill stated the Belt Line parcel is on a lake. He was in favor of including a
statement that some component be single-family homes.
Mayor Jacobs believed it would depend on the developers financing. If they were senous
about move-up housing, they should have a component of single-family homes.
Councilmember Finkelstein stated that was a big policy question. They may want to defer
the discussion.
Councilmember Basill stated he wasn't looking for concrete language, but if a future Council
referred back to this, he would want them to know they wanted consideration given to single-
family homes.
Councilmember Sanger agreed with a general direction for some form of single-family homes.
Mr. Locke indicated people had inquired about that parcel. They could ask them to consider
single-family homes. It is a substantial parcel. The purpose of this study was not to decide
what to put there.
Mayor Jacobs noted it wouldn't be a binding statement, although the City owned it and could
tell them no. They would consider proposals on their own merits.
3. Hoigaard Village TIF
Mr. Locke indicated the key issue was TIF. This would be a step toward implementing the
Elmwood study. At the next Council meeting, they will present the preliminary PUD and
plat.
Mr. Frank Dunbar, Dunbar Development Co., discussed the site plan.
Councilmember Sanger asked about a deadline? Mr. Dunbar replied it was an open issue
with Hoigaard's because they didn't want to make a decision until they knew this was "real".
Councilmember Sanger felt it was a"chicken and egg" situation regarding Hoigaard's.
Councilmember Finkelstein believed it was either the right economics or not.
Mayor Jacobs agreed TIF could not be dependent on a particular business, either the
economics worked or not.
Study Session Minutes -5- November 14, 2005
Mayor Jacob asked if the warehouse and dock would be included based on the business it
was leased to? Mr. Dunbar replied that would only be there for Hoigaard's.
Councilmember Santa asked if that would impact the amount of TIF needed? Mr. Dunbar
replied it wouldn't be a significant impact.
Councilmember Sanger stated all retail was not alike. Councilmember Sanger questioned if
financial aid should be used for fast food restaurants versus higher quality retail and higher
paying jobs.
Mr. Dunbar stated discussed the site between 35 'A & 36th Streets.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked the price points? Mr. Dunbar replied the overall range
was $225,000-400,000
Mr. Dunbar discussed the proposed construction phasing and more of the site plan.
Councilmember Sanger asked if there was an increase in units from the last plan? Mr. Dunbar
replied an increase in apartments.
Councilmember Sanger asked how they had added the units? Mr. Dunbar replied through the
height, which didn't impact Designed Outdoor Recreation Areas (DORA).
Councilmember Basill believed this needed to go back to the neighborhood for more
discussion regarding the increase in height and density.
Mr. Dunbar indicated that they had a 20' floor to ceiling on the retail and it would be a net
increase now of 4'.
Mr. Harmening asked how many units per floor on 36th St? Mr. Dunbar replied less than 20.
The unit square footage ranged from 900-1460 sq. ft.
Councilmember Basill was concerned about the setback on 36`h Street and that enough space
be allowed for people to walk. The sidewalk should wrap around to Wooddale.
Mayor Jacobs noted if the LRT comes to the area, sidewalks are important.
Mr. Locke indicated they were encouraging sidewalks and were discussing the key
pedestrian corridors in the area.
Mr. Harmening clanfied on the east side of Wooddale between 36`h and Highway 7, they
needed an interim pedestrian connection until permanent improvements were done.
Councilmember Basill stated the two existing buildings were a concern.
Study Session Minutes -6- November 14, 2005
Councilmember Sanger stated if the properties were not obtained, property values would go
up and they would be harder to obtain. That could be green space or more parking. This
may be an opportunity to suggest more involvement in the decision. The TIF is to be paid
back in eleven years,but it could take longer.
Councilmember Finkelstein noted it would be close to $2 million.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked about eminent domain? Mr. Locke responded it was not a
successful tool to get the price down.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked if they decided to sell, what was the plan? Mr. Dunbar
replied they couldn't economically make anything work. It would be green space.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked how much DORA was added? Mr. Dunbar replied 14,000
feet and they added the pond. Ms. McMomgal indicated 17%of the site was DORA.
Councilmember Basill understood the complexities of those buildings but it would be a better
project without them. This may be a consideration regarding TIF.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked how much money was going to the remediation? Mr. Hunt
replied regarding the TIF request, they found a gap of$5.75 million due to costs unique to
development of the site. Remediation costs will be more substantial than anticipated.
Councilmember Santa asked the TIF amount? Mr. Hunt responded they would request a
range of$4.75 - 5.5 million
Councilmember Basill asked if there was any county funding available? Mr. Hunt replied
there was money,but they had just received funding for other projects and it was unlikely it
would be done by spring. The total value of the project, as built, would be $77 million.
Councilmember Sanger asked if they needed the larger storm water pond because of runoff
from other businesses, could they allocate back to other property owners? Mr. Hunt
responded that there were three zones. This site was the low point of the area.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked if the project didn't go forward, how would they deal with
the storm water pond capacity? Mr. Hunt replied they would find another location in this
area
Mr. Hunt stated that staff was suggesting paying their portion up front and pay back from
special assessments to other area properties.
Councilmember Sanger asked if they could special assess now? Mr. Harmening stated they
would need to discuss the legalities with the City Attorney.
Councilmember Basill indicated the small businesses in the area wouldn't have the means for
an assessment. Their storm water works.
Study Session Minutes -7- November 14, 2005
Councilmember Sanger stated that all taxpayers would be subsidizing this.
Mr. Hunt noted it would be easier to do with a redevelopment project.
Councilmember Finkelstein asked if this would create a precedent for future projects on
retention ponds and TIF money? Mr. Hunt responded that each plan was unique. This site
had a unique feature with the deficiency of storm water in the area.
Ms. McMonigal indicated this is the lowest area and the modifications were recommended
by the Engineer.
Mayor Jacobs asked about the next steps?
Mr. Locke asked if the Council wanted to move forward with this level of assistance?
Councilmember Finkelstein asked if this was a reasonable amount of appropriation?
Mr. Mark Ruff, Ehlers & Associates, replied that the pond was a separate issue from TIF.
This would be high end, but an acceptable range. Development costs associated with the site
are extraordinary costs.
Councilmember Finkelstein inquired about the"look back"provision. Mr. Ruff responded if
an arrangement for tax increment financing is worked out with the developer, that is when
there is a look back. The developer was willing to do that.
Councilmember Sanger asked if they had ever gotten money back from a"look back"
provision? Mr. Ruff replied not in St. Louis Park, but they had in other cities.
Councilmember Sanger stated that the TIF payback was eleven years, would that change?
Mr. Hunt replied yes, it would be 13 years.
Mr. Harmening stated a potential use of excess TIF could be for transportation.
Mr. Locke indicated the preliminary PUD and plat will be coming for the Council on
Monday, 11/21. Then they can move forward to set up the TIF District or combine it.
Councilmember Santa asked when they would meet with the neighborhood? Councilmember
Basill replied he would make some phone calls so they were aware of the change in height.
Mr. Dunbar stated density with the larger units hadn't increased. The market was changing
to require larger units.
The meeting adjourned at 9:12 p.m. t/
CityMay Clerk r