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HomeMy WebLinkAbout2005/10/24 - ADMIN - Minutes - City Council - Study Session CITY OF ST. LOUIS OFFICIAL MINUTES PARK CITY COUNCIL STUDY SESSION October 24, 2005 The meeting convened at 7:00 p.m. Councilmembers present: John Basill, Jim Brimeyer, Phil Finkelstein, Paul Omodt, Susan Sanger, Sue Santa and Mayor Jeff Jacobs. Staff present: City Manager(Mr. Harmening), Community Development Director(Mr. Locke), Director of Technology and Support Services (Mr. Pires), Finance Director(Ms. McGann), Planning/Zoning Supervisor(Ms. McMonigal) and Recording Secretary(Ms Stegora-Peterson). Others present: Tom Asp, Virchow Krause 1. Silvercrest Condo Project _ Mr. Locke indicated Mr. Gould submitted a letter agreeing to extend the review time. Council asked Mr. Gould to provide a letter indicating why he could not get financing, a commitment to market the project to seniors and for transportation improvements. Mayor Jacobs asked if they discussed larger units for a younger senior demographic? Mr Locke replied that hadn't been discussed. Councilmember Brimeyer was upset that at the last meeting they lost sight of the desired end result, move-up housing. Initially he thought it should be a senior campus. His thoughts shifted because they had created a successful environment. He did not agree that they were building too fast and too high, but agreed there should be more diversity. Councilmember Finkelstein clarified the concern was not that they were building too fast,but condominiums were being concentrated in one area. Councilmember Sanger believed they needed to determine if the PUD should be changed. She was OK with 14-stories because they proposed a senior campus. Councilmember Bnmeyer clarified the desired end result was a senior campus. Councilmember Sanger noted another alternative was for Mr. Gould to wait. The market or financing may change. Councilmember Basill agreed this was from the City's own success,but they needed to be calculated and control the growth for the long-term health of the community. Councilmember Brimeyer indicated they wanted move-up housing. Councilmember Basill wanted developers to come forward with the right scale, character of the community and density, and compare traffic studies apples to apples. Councilmember Brimeyer stated all developments would add to traffic. They need to differentiate what was too much and figure out a way to handle it. Study Session Minutes -2- October 24, 2005 Mr. Harmening indicated the site was zoned and guided for this scale. They needed to look at the project on its own merits. Traffic was the same with the current use as it would be with a 150-unit market rate building. Councilmember Sanger believed there was a demand for senior condos. At the Housing Summit they discussed alternatives for seniors to free up single-family homes There would be less traffic with a senior building. Councilmember Santa noted the definition of senior was 55 and up. Those who are 55-65 don't want to be labeled as senior. Councilmember Omodt didn't believe traffic was a valid argument. The whole area had changed. The change in traffic with this project was negligible. They were victims of their own success. Just because a development changed, didn't make it bad. This was a technical marketing issue. The market was there for this. Councilmember Sanger asked if the site were sold, would the PUD restrictions still apply? Mr. Locke replied yes. Councilmember Basill stated that seniors in Park Shore building had expressed concerns about it being non age-restricted. Councilmember Brimeyer indicated their only argument should be that it was approved as a senior building. The developer can wait,build it as senior or sell it. Mayor Jacobs stated there were two questions to be answered: What is the downside or problem with non age based building? To what extent do they let traffic concerns govern development? Traffic would need to be managed. Councilmember Sanger believed they should look at this in a more positive way. The community is aging and people may wish to leave their houses. Councilmember Brimeyer stated they were sending mixed-messages to the developer. Councilmember Basill indicated maybe they were, but they were trying to work with him. The issue was senior housing or non age-restricted. Mr. Locke asked if there was a marketing issue? Most Councilmembers agreed. Mr. Locke stated they could keep it senior, allow the change and market it to seniors. Condos in general have an older demographic. Councilmember Sanger didn't understand why they couldn't get financing when another project had. Ms. McMonigal replied these were considered luxury units and a different market from the other senior(Rottland)building. Councilmember Finkelstein stated he would feel differently if they had tried to market this. Councilmember Omodt believed this was a slight change and noted that Excelsior and Grand had changed many times. Study Session Minutes -3- October 24, 2005 Mr. Harmening stated Council would be required to vote on this. Staff could tell Mr. Gould there were not enough votes. Councilmember Omodt felt this was a turning point for the City Council. Other projects won't be able to make changes once approved. Councilmember Sanger wanted the freedom to evaluate projects on a case-by-case basis. This position wasn't locked in. Mayor Jacobs agreed this was handled poorly and they gave the developer mixed signals. They needed to evaluate case-by-case. The community was going to look and feel more urban and they needed to recognize the change. Mr. Gould can bring it back, but the votes were not going to change. Councilmember Finkelstein believed they should schedule a meeting how to manage the growth. Mr. Harmening replied they could schedule a Council retreat. 2. Wireless Study Mr. Pires stated this was a follow up discussion about forming the public/private partnership and legal issues. Councilmember Sanger asked: 1)How long the pilot project would be? 2)How they will evaluate it? 3) Several people talked about changing Email. Does the pilot project change the Email and then will it change again? 4) Does it make sense to include neighborhoods with DSL and other without? 5) Does it make sense to include condos and townhouses? Mr. Pires replied they talked about including apartments to test structural questions. They can have a mix of multi-family housing. They need to figure out where DSL is located. Qwest had provided a map, although it was not accurate. Councilmember Omodt noted he looked at the map and everything was wrong. Mr. Asp indicated someone doing the pilot project could keep an old Email account. All Time Warner users will have to switch to Comcast Email. They can commit to keep St. Louis Park addresses for a year or longer. People can also use other Email such as Yahoo!, etc. Mr. Pires indicated they wanted to alleviate the hassle. Councilmember Finkelstein asked if technology advances were coming, and if they would be looking at a new model that might be free? The cost was previously$250,000 and now it was $350,000,why? Was the pilot taking into consideration those with electrical sensitivity to the extent reasonably practical? Mr. Pires indicated the evaluation of the pilot would look at the goals and how it will be managed and operated. Staff will come back in April or May to check in. Councilmember Sanger believed they needed to identify how they would evaluate this. The pilot should last more than three months. Mr. Pires replied that the pilot could last longer. The value of data for market analysis gets less valid over time. The critical piece is the need to add fiber during the construction period. Study Session Minutes -4- October 24, 2005 Councilmember Sanger suggested they check in, continue the pilot and install more fiber if necessary. Mr. Pires indicated there would be commitment and customers involved with the pilot would continue service. Councilmember Santa asked who the partner would be and how they would evaluate? Mr. Pires replied there would be criteria. They were looking at two (or more) partners, manufacturers of equipment and a management partner, doing maintenance and a help desk This should be reviewed periodically to retain competition Councilmember Santa believed there needed to be criteria for what to expect from the partners and the service levels. Councilmember Basill was concerned with the risk of money on the pilot project and not in support of spending $4.4 million. He was concerned with the public model. If they did prefer to do it, it should be a private/public partnership. Councilmember Brimeyer asked if anyone was interested in partnering? Mr. Pires replied about half dozen had expressed an interest. Councilmember Finkelstein referred to his previous questions regarding the private market. Mr. Pires replied there was a lot of hype, but he was not sure it would happen. Councilmember Finkelstein asked about the cost and if it would go down by renting equipment? Mr. Pires replied the spreadsheet showed a contingency and application development and allowed flexibility. $100,000 allows the opportunity to develop applications on the web site or expand scope and size of pilot. They would try to avoid areas with health concerns. Councilmember Sanger was under the impression it would be their branding, but work and equipment would be private vendors. She would rather the partner be accountable. Mr. Pires indicated they were in it for the equipment and infrastructure and would not be taking help desk calls. They may want to minimize the number of partners, make sure infrastructure is there and determine who manages. Once built, it is the private sectors responsibility. Councilmember Finkelstein indicated there was an attempt for legislation not to allow cities this. Would the pilot project get their"foot in the door"? Mr. Pires replied having paying customers might allow for grandfathering of an existing project. Councilmember Brimeyer asked if other cities did pilots? Mr. Asp replied no. Councilmember Finkelstein asked about the City of Minneapolis? Mr. Pires replied they had received nine or ten proposals,but he had not heard anything more. Mr. Harmening stated the pilot was to be prudent and thoughtful and spend less money. Councilmember Brimeyer indicated investors might not think it is a good idea to do a pilot. He felt they should move forward. They should also determine if wireless was an essential service They also needed subscribership and investment formulas. Mr. Pires stated they could do the pilot, work out the bugs, with the intention of going citywide. Councilmember Sanger indicated people would be giving something up and there needed to be a commitment. Study Session Minutes -5- October 24, 2005 Councilmember Santa believed one of the issues was to test the partnership, how it would work and the relationship. Mr. Pires indicated there were examples they could review. Council requested evaluation cnteria and that the item comes before them November 21st Councilmember Basill believed technology was moving too quickly. They were risking a lot of money. It was not a true private/public partnership and he was not comfortable. Mayor Jacobs stated he was willing to go forward with the pilot project, but would like a better model. Councilmember Omodt was worried about the economics and would like a presentation from Qwest to see the alternatives. If the private market were going to do this, he would like to know. Councilmember Finkelstein suggested it be open to other companies as well. Councilmember Sanger suggested Qwest be given a deadline to provide information. Mr. Pires indicated he would send Qwest a request. 3. 2006-2010 Capital Improvement Program Ms. McGann stated that the proposed 2006 budget had been balanced and takes into consideration increasing fuel costs and new positions. Positions had not been denied or approved by the City manager. Was the Council still comfortable with the 7%property tax increased? Truth-in-Taxation statements examples were provided. She discussed increased and limited market values. Councilmember Finkelstein asked if there was a standard number for percentage increases? Ms. McGann replied the number came from the Hennepin County system and was what people would see on notices The School District had a 5.5% increase. Mr. Harmening noted that was based on the maximum levy. Councilmember Sanger asked why lower valued homes had a higher increase? Ms. McGann replied the higher value house had already lost most of the market-value homestead credit. Councilmember Sanger asked when notices would be sent? Ms. McGann replied the second week of November. Councilmember Sanger indicated they needed to make information available about the senior tax credit. Ms. McGann responded that information could be included with the public heanng. Mr. Harmening added a link could be provided on the web site. Ms. McGann noted that the senior deferral was not always a good idea because interest was added. They need to be aware of that up front. Councilmember Basill asked if the City portion on an average house ($230,000)was a $10/month increase? Ms. McGann replied approximately$8-10/month for average and$15- 18/month for higher valued homes. Mr. Harmening stated that part of that $10/month was being used in the community as an investment(pavement). Study Session Minutes -6- October 24, 2005 Councilmember Sanger asked with union contracts still open, how that affected the budget? Ms. McGann replied they made assumptions based on cost of living increases, step increases and also looked at the market for appropriate allocations. Ms. McGann discussed how they would pay for various infrastructures and the water fund. If they do all projects, they can bond or do a"pay as you go"method. A handout was provided comparing other communities (assumes no increase in rates). Ms. McGann discussed the impact if Novartis decided to leave. Mr. Harmening stated they would still have production here. Ms. McGann indicated if they were gone, it was $200,000/year for water and $16,000 for storm water. They considered a stable rate of consumption, growth was not taken into consideration. She recommended they continue"pay as you go" for the water fund and suggested a GO bond for storm water utilities. Mr. Harmening stated when that as a part of pavement management, the city will replace water mains. The Council agreed with replacing water mains as a part of pavement management. Ms. McGann stated the residents would see an average increase of$10.63/quarter for a family of four. There would also be $95/year for property taxes. Councilmember Sanger believed they needed to educate the public. Ms. McGann responded they could break down the increases. Mr. Harmening added they could list what it would be used for or provide a graph. The Council agreed to proceed forward and schedule the public hearing in December. 4. Council Governance Councilmember Brimeyer provided a handout regarding policy as a leadership tool. If they were concerned about the rapid pace of growth, they needed to say so. They were not going to control the pace with the current interest rates. Councilmember Finkelstein stated they needed to look at the absorption rate and how quickly projects were coming in. Councilmember Bnmeyer believed they shouldn't worry about penetration rates if the market says they can handle this. Mr. Harmening indicated they could say no, but change would still happen on the site. Some sites were zoned for uses they may not feel are the best for this community and they needed to be careful. Councilmember Sanger stated they needed to have a policy discussion on geographic dispersal. Mr. Harmening stated Excelsior and Grand was where they should promote density. Councilmember Finkelstein believed it was Council's role to ask where they wanted to be in 20 years Councilmember Brimeyer indicated they could argue for senior and open-market housing, the issue was debating projects when they should ask if they were meeting the housing goals. Study Session Minutes -7- October 24, 2005 Councilmember Sanger believed the issue was more expansive. One of the reasons why there is discussion about too many condos is traffic implications and congestion. Councilmember Santa noted that people do not want to be labeled (as seniors). Mr. Harmening updated the Council about STEP. They were asking for a one year extension, with the same terms they were presently under. The Council was agreed with the lease extension go to EDA. Councilmember Finkelstein suggested the extension go to January. Councilmember Sanger requested progress reports every three months. Mr. Harmening indicated he would try to program a retreat about governance and development. The meeting adjourned at 9:30 p.m. iTh 2(1211.6.19fr-t9---141---- City Clerk i02(