HomeMy WebLinkAbout1997/10/13 - ADMIN - Minutes - City Council - Study Session CITY OF Minutes
ST. LOUIS City Council Study Session
PARK October 13, 1997
7:00 p.m.
The meeting convened at 7:08 p.m.
Present at the meeting were Councilmembers Beverly Flanagan, Ron Latz, Robert Young, Sue
Sanger, Jeff Jacobs and Mayor Gail Dorfman.
Staff present. City Manager(Mr. Meyer); Deputy City Manager(Ms. Kutzler); Director of
Community Development (Mr. Harmening); Public Works Director(Mr. Rardin); Building
Maintenance Superintendent(Mr. Altepeter); Superintendent of Engineering (Mr. Moore);
Economic Development Coordinator(Mr. Anderson); and City Clerk (Ms. Larsen).
1. Public Investment on Religious Institution Property
At its regular meeting of October 6, 1997, Council had agreed to engage in discussion regarding
the relationship between the City government and religious institutions located in St. Louis Park.
To begin this discussion, Mr. Meyer passed out a fax from Tom Scott of Campbell Knutson
indicating that in the attorney's opinion the two recent contracts raised no constitutional issues.
Council also reviewed a list put together by Mr. Gears outlining physical property sharing related
to this issue.
Councilmember Latz felt this is not a constitutional issue and expressed his opinion that the
Supreme Court has recently backed away from clear delineation between the two entities. He
felt that the important question is whether it is appropriate for the City to engage in a policy of
investing money to benefit private religious institutions. He expressed concern over appearances
and stated that in his view it is more prudent to separate as much as possible in order to protect
both religious and state interests. He further stated that market driven deals are not at issue;
voting locations are a separate issue; use of property is not an investment in that property and
that the tough issue on the table is monetary investment in religiously owned and operated
property. He also said that ends to be achieved and value of the investment are irrelevant to this
issue.
Councilmember Young stated that he saw no problems with situations indicated in the 3 columns
on the right of the handout (Religious investment on City Property, City Use of Religious
Property and Religious Use of City Property), but that he did have a problem with the proposed
construction of an amphitheater at Hannon Lake by Westwood Lutheran Church and with the
garden on the Lutheran Church of the Reformation grounds. He saw no problem with the Torah
Academy trail and steps.
1
Councilmember Sanger agreed with Councilmember Latz's legal analysis, but felt it was
inappropriate for the City to accept the benefit of using religious property without being willing
in give a little back. In the case of the Torah Academy lease she saw no opportunity for
promotion of or interference with the practice of religion. She also stated that the City regularly
encourages church participation in community activities.
Councilmember Jacobs said that he felt that the history of the issue is based on suspicion dating
back to colonial times and that what we are currently struggling with is not the project itself, but
to formulate policy for City Council to apply in cases where religion and government intertwine
He felt it will be difficult to achieve an appropriate balance. He felt that there need to be
boundaries and that contractual agreements with religious institutions should be viewed the same
as an agreement made with any other private institution. He indicated that he was still struggling
with the concept of public dollars spent on religious property. He was willing to work toward
policy setting parameters for these agreements. He also indicated that he clearly did not want to
have the same debate every time this issue arose.
Councilmember Flanagan stated that she felt that the City is obligated to provide something for
each something provided to the City by a religious institution. She also believes that because
they don't pay taxes churches should give back to the community in other ways. She also felt the
Council would need to review each case as it comes up.
Mayor Dorfman stated that it is the City's long-standing policy to build community and that
churches are clearly a part of the St. Louis Park community. When neighbors work together, in
the context of church, school or neighborhood group, that is secular and the City should respond
in a logical and consistent manner.
Mr. Meyer offered two options for dealing with the situation: 1) set a policy stating that no
improvements would be made on religious property or 2) if a proposal involves improvements to
religious property, staff would need to lay out the balance of interest and benefits for each
situation.
Councilmember Jacobs suggested that in each case the City look at what we are attempting to do
and ensure that it is for a secular purpose.
Mr. Gears stated that the proposed lease with Torah Academy governs the use of the property, as
does the lease for the garden on church grounds.
Councilmember Sanger felt is was very important that no religious symbols or dogma be present
at a site where public dollars had been spent. For example, a cross should not be placed in the
center of the community garden at Lutheran Church of the Reformation. She also felt that goods
and services provided or received should be considered at fair market value and that our vision
needed to be expanded to include services as well as aesthetic benefits.
Councilmember Latz reiterated his opinion that no support should be given to projects which
would provide for public dollars to be spent improving religious property.
2
Councilmember Sanger provided an analogy; that TIF is for the benefit of private property and
that the City develops agreements to ensure that the money provided will benefit the community
as a whole. She views this issue the same.
Mayor Dorfman said that she felt there were too many gray areas. She did not feel Council could
establish any one policy that would make this issue go away. She felt each proposal of this
nature would need to be reviewed on a case by case basis.
Councilmember Sanger and Councilmember Young agreed with her observation.
Councilmember Jacobs stated that he felt certain checks and balances needed to be built in so
that Council felt moderately comfortable in applying a common sense approach in each case.
He also felt constitutional admonitions would make sure City Council did not cross the line.
Councilmember Sanger pointed out that the Supreme Court handled cases of this nature on a case
by case basis and felt the City Council should do the same.
Councilmember Latz thanked his fellow Councilmembers for the discussion and also requested
that in the future polling places be requested to remove religious symbols from areas where
voting takes place.
Mr. Meyer indicated that he felt use of churches as polling places could be a future discussion.
2. Frauenshuh proposal planning Process
Community Development staff brought forward to Council a proposed process and parameters
for studying redevelopment in the area surrounding the intersection of Highway 7 and Louisiana
Avenue South. Ms. Jeremiah briefly outlined the history of development at this site and
reminded Council of outstanding environmental concerns at the site. She proposed that the City
utilize a process less formal and far-reaching than the Town Center charrette process which
would be more similar to the process used for the planning of Wolfe Park and the Town Green
locations within that larger area.
She indicated that there would be significant demands on staff time. Ms. Jeremiah also
expressed concern that if the City were to undertake a full-blown charrette process prior to any
real development occurring in the Park Commons area, that public perception could be that their
intensive involvement did not result in action.
Mr. Harmening said that Randy McKay of Frauenshue is interested in assisting with the planning
process and will be actively involved if he can be assured that their proposal would indeed be
part of the development.
3
Mayor Dorfman approved of the concept and stated that this kind of process should be applied to
all development areas in the City.
Discussion ensued regarding the developer's time line and necessity for beginning the process
almost immediately. It was suggested that development of the Oak Park Village portion of the
area need not be fully addressed prior to development beginning on the medical building.
Councilmember Latz had no objections to a medical building on the site but did express concern
that the development plans would be"piecemeal". He feared that the City's credibility could be
damaged.
Mr. Harmening again stated that the issue of staff resources needs to be considered and that help
from other community members and interested parties should be welcomed. Mr. Meyer also
stated that other projects may have to be postponed during this process.
Councilmember Sanger asked Council to consider outcomes and expectations. She urged
Councilmembers to not get"boxed in"by one developer's proposal. She also asked about the
status of Oak Park Village. She felt it was up to Council to make decisions regarding future
development on the site and that this decision should not be turned over to a Task Force.
Mayor Dorfman said that we have a better chance of retaining open space if the entire area is
looked as a whole. She urged all present to stand by the concept of livable communities in
planning redevelopment in this area.
Ms. Jeremiah indicated that she felt the issue of being"boxed in"would be addressed by phasing
the project as had been done at Park Commons. She also indicated that the outcome of a public
process is by nature an"unknown". She felt that those who signed the petition were presented
with a one sided scenario, and that they tended to lean toward being more protective of the open
space when given a yes/no option.
Councilmember Sanger asked if environmental testing would be part of the study. She expressed
concern over the huge impact the condition of the area could have on future redevelopment. Mr.
Harmening said that estimates could be obtained.
Councilmember Young felt that the Task Force process is overkill and that only the Northwest
corner is suitable for this kind of approach. Councilmember Flanagan agreed.
Councilmember Jacobs stated that his main concern was the traffic flow, that he liked the
concept but that density is a concern for him. He also expressed concern about public opinion
and perception.
Mayor Dorfman said that she felt confident that a majority of the Council wanted to conduct a
mini-charrette, and that resource allocation would be a major consideration. She still felt Council
needed to decide how to handle the development at this intersection.
4
Councilmember Brimeyer felt that a piecemeal approach would be indefensible.
Mr. Harmening said that he would bring a more specific work plan to Council in the near future.
3. Almsted proposal at Westwood Shopping Center
Council considered a proposal from Jim Almsted of Almsted Enterprises, Inc. With Ben
Steinberg of the Steinberg Financial Corporation to locate a full service grocery in the now
vacated former Bernie's Jubilee store at the Westwood Shopping Center. Dave Anderson
reviewed the major points of the proposal which provided Council with information necessary to
decide if the City is willing to provide economic assistance to facilitate the location of a grocer in
the now vacant space.
Mr. Anderson stated that the anticipated Cub Foods proposal would affect this concept and
figures have been factored in to allow for that possibility. Council discussed the need for a
grocery in light of livable communities concepts and as a major factor in the success of the
shopping center itself.
Councilmember Brimeyer pointed out that only two questions made sense; 1) do we want a
grocery store in this area and 2) do we want to do it with public dollars.
Councilmember Flanagan asked if we would be setting precedent or manipulating the
marketplace. Mr. Anderson replied that the tools for designing an assistance package have
specific rules and parameters to allow for this kind of proposal.
Councilmember Latz asked how this fit in to the text of Texa Tonka Shopping Center. He noted
that the absence of a major anchor at that location has been detrimental to business in general.
Councilmember Sanger stated she was struggling with the process and policy. She asked how
this proposal could fit in to the strategic plan for Economic development. Mr. Anderson replied
that the Development Fund policy can be used as a tool to evaluate the proposal.
Mayor Dorfman asked that staff provide Council with alternatives and that Council bring this to
a vote at the next meeting. Mr. Meyer indicated that staff could look at existing policies and
compare them to this kind of project.
4. Right-of-way Detachment from St. Louis Park and Annexation to Golden Valley
Mark Rimes, Community Development Director for Golden Valley and Tom Harmening
addressed Council regarding Golden Valley's request for detachment and annexation of a strip of
land currently located within the St. Louis Park city limits. They indicated that MEPC properties
5
were anxious to begin development which includes this portion of land and that the process
should begin as soon as possible.
Councilmember Brimeyer asked if there weren't more changes that should be considered. He
felt the dividing line between the two suburbs should be directly down the center of I394.
Council discussed several parcels which have issues related to City boundaries and
Councilmember Sanger and Councilmember Young expressed concern that we would lose
leverage for dealing with other properties if this piece were to be done now.
Mayor Dorfman indicated that we would need reasonable guarantees from the Golden Valley
City Council before we felt comfortable with proceeding. She felt, however, that the spirit of
cooperative government should prevail.
Councilmember Latz expressed a lack of faith based on past experience in dealing with the
Golden Valley City Council regarding land issues. He felt it important to roll all land issues
together in one action. He also asked if we could do a revenue sharing proposal in the time
needed to accommodate the MEPC proposal. Their proposed date of commencement on
construction is March 1998.
Councilmember Brimeyer also asked that a revenue sharing agreement come from Golden Valley
in the form of a resolution.
5. 1998 Bonding Bill
Council was not in favor of an arts center in St. Louis Park and indicated a desire from bridge
funding to go forward for the Excelsior Boulevard bridge over Highway 100. Councilmember
Sanger asked if the City could ask that these funds be used for noise barriers. Mr. Meyer said
that staff would research that concept.
6. Public Works Service and Programs - Part II
In an effort to provide Council with basic program and service information which could be used
in later planning and policy discussions, Public Works staff presented an overview of the Public
Works Facilities Maintenance and Engineering Divisions.
Mr. Altepeter spoke of the Facilities Maintenance Division's mission and purpose and the
Facilities Maintenance and Municipal Building Funds. He also outlined operations of the
division including staff levels, special projects, capital improvements and maintenance
operations.
Mr. Moore gave a presentation about the Engineering Division including a history of the
division, current services provided, use of technology in the division and a change from the
6
emphasis on new growth of the City's infrastructure to a maintenance model ensuring the quality
of that infrastructure over time.
Councilmember Brimeyer asked about the GIS system and whether the City is still working with
LOGIS for delivery of GIS services. Mr. Moore stated that our system is growing and that
LOGIS is still providing services.
Councilmember Sanger asked if utility companies will have more freedom in the future to
request that we accommodate their construction needs. Mr. Moore replied that staff has recently
received training in this area and is preparing to address utility company needs when they arise.
A motion to adjourn was made by Councilmember Brimeyer and seconded by Councilmember
Jacobs. The meeting adjourned at 10:55 p.m.
/ (
Gail Dorfman, Mayor
• 4:24...A-0.-0---
R cording Secretary
I
7