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HomeMy WebLinkAbout1994/03/21 - ADMIN - Minutes - City Council - Regular MINUTES CITY COUNCIL MEETING ST. LOUIS PARR, MINNESOTA March 21, 1994 1 . Call to order The meeting was called to order at 7 : 35 p.m. by Mayor Pro Tem Allen Friedman. 2 . Presentations None 3 . Roll call The following Councilmembers were present at roll call : Jeff Jacobs, George Haun, Ron Latz, Robert Young, Gail Dorfman and Allen Friedman. Also present were the City Manager (Mr . Meyer) ; Deputy City Attorney (Ms . Pace) ; Director of Community Development (Mr . Hagen) ; Director of Public Works (Mr. Grube) Director of Parks and Recreation (Mr . Gears) ; Asst . to the City Manager (Mr . Larson) and Police Chief (Mr. Mitchell) . 4 . Approval of minutes It was moved by Councilmember Dorfman, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs , to approve the minutes of the March 7 , 1994 study session. The motion passed 6-0 . It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Haun, to approve the minutes of the City Council meeting of March 7, 1994 . The motion passed 6-0 . 5 . Approval of agenda It was moved by Councilmember Haun, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, to approve the consent agenda for March 21 , 1994 . The motion passed 6-0 . It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Dorfman, to approve the agenda. The motion passed 6-0 . Mr. Meyer gave an update on the deer management program. PUBLIC HEARINGS 6a. Vacation A portion of "old" Natchez Ave. There being no one wishing to speak, the Mayor Pro Tem closed the 40 - City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994 hearing with the right of Council to thereafter reopen and continue it to a future date. It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by CouncilmemberIII Haun to defer setting date for further consideration of first reading pending receipt and review of a survey and easement documents and to renotice. The motion passed 6-0 . At this point in the meeting a number of residents asked to address the deer management matter. They were Max Fallek, 8715 Westmoreland Lane; Dave Rossman, 5707 Hwy. 7; Ruth Weisburg, 9020 Westmoreland Lane; Roger Bordeau, Oregon Ave . ; Andrea Weisburg, 9020 Westmoreland Lane; Joanne Murphy, 4921 Vallacher; and Alicia Cohen, 8900 Westmoreland Lane . A verbatim transcript of their comments and the comments of Council is attached at the end of these minutes. 6b. Municipal parking lot Reconstruction: W. Lake Resolution 94-31 St ./Dakota Ave. Mike Posnick, 2601 Princeton Ave . So. asked whether or not a staff report would be given. It was not clear what was being proposed. Mr. Grube briefly explained what this project was . There being no one wishing to speak, the Mayor Pro Tem closed the hearing with the right of Council to thereafter reopen and continue it at a future date. Councilmember Dorfman noted Mr. Grube said a retaining wall was damaged, said damage caused by train vibrations, was part of the project . She asked if there was any way the Soo Line can be asked to pay a portion of the costs . Ms . Pace could think of no legal reason why the railroad couldn' t be asked. Mr. Grube said he had talked with the railroad and they declined the opportunity to participate. Since the City requires an easement from the railroad, the City is obliged to provide some extra services. Councilmember Dorfman felt it worthwhile to pursue further participation by the railroad in the project costs . It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Latz , to adopt Resolution 94-31 entitled "Resolution ordering Improvement Project No. 94-02C approving plans and specifications and authorizing receipt of bids for reconstruction of municipal parking lot at W. Lake St. /Dakota Ave. " 41 City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994 The motion passed 6-0 . 111 6c. Easement reduction at 3966 Dakota Ave . There being no one wishing to speak, the Mayor closed the hearing with the right of Council to thereafter reopen and continue it at a future date. It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Haun, to approve first reading, set second for April 4 , and authorize summary publication The motion passed 6-0 . PETITIONS, REQUESTS, COMMUNICATIONS None. RESOLUTIONS AND ORDINANCES 8a. Amhurst 4th Addition Detachment/annexation Resolution 94-32 It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Haun, to adopt Resolution 94-32 entitled "A joint resolution petitioning the Minnesota Municipal Board for concurrent detachment and annexation of property presently in the City of St . Louis Park. " The motion passed 6-0 . REPORTS FROM OFFICERS, BOARDS, COMMITTEES 9a. City Engineer report Bituminous milling, overlay, Resolution 94-33 curb/gutter repair on Park Place Blvd. from Cedar Lake Rd. to 250 ft . north of W. 16th St . It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Young, to adopt Resolution 94-33 entitled "Resolution accepting the City Engineer' s report, establishing Improvement Project No. 90-55, ordering the project, approving plans and specifications, authorizing advertisement for bids for the project . " The motion passed 6-0 . 9b. City Engineer report Construction of parking lot at Resolution 94-34 Lake Victoria Park It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Haun, to adopt Resolution 94-34 entitled "Resolution accepting 42 City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994 the City Engineer' s report, establishing Improvement Project 94- 16 ordering the project, approving plans and specifications and authorizing advertisement for bids. " The motion passed 6-0 . 9c. City Engineer report Construction of municipal lot at Resolution 94-35 Bass Lake It was moved by Councilmember Haun, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, to adopt Resolution 94-35 entitled "Resolution accepting the City Engineer' s report, establishing Improvement Project 93- 24 , ordering the project, approving plans and specifications, authorizing advertisement for bids for the project . " Councilmember Haun felt the plan might be short a few parking spaces based on the number of cars that park at the Rec Center with people then having to cross the street to get to the soccer field. Mr. Grube said it was worth looking at . He said the area could accommodate an additional 14 spaces. The motion passed 6-0 . 9d. Traffic Study 473 No parking along Cedar Lake Rd. Resolution 94-36 at So. Cedar Trails driveway By consent, adopt Resolution 94-36 entitled "Resolution accepting City Engineer' s report, establishing Improvement Project 93-24 , ordering project, approving plans and specifications, authorizing advertisement for bids for the project . " 9e. Traffic Study 474 Permit parking, 6308 W. 35th St . Resolution 93-37 By consent , adopt Resolution 94 - 37 entitled "Resolution authorizing parking restrictions along W. 38th St . at 6308 . " 9f. City Engineer report Construction of municipal parking Resolution 94-38 lot at Dakota Park It was moved by Councilmember Haun, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, to adopt Resolution 94-38 entitled "Resolution accepting the City Engineer' s report, establishing Improvement Project 94- 15, ordering the project, approving plans and specifications and authorizing receipt of bids for the construction of a parking lot on west side of Dakota Park. Councilmember Haun asked if there was any chance of participation by the School District in the costs. 43 City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994 Mr. Gears said staff had had discussion with the School District and believed the position that would most likely take is that a portion of their contribution to the City' s Park Improvement Fund could be allocated for this project . He was not certain if they would go beyond that appropriation. The motion passed 6-0 . 9g. Housing Authority minutes Feb. 8 9h. Board of Zoning Appeals minutes Feb. 24 9i . Planning Commission minutes Mar. 2 9j . February 1994 financial report Items 9h-9j ordered filed by consent UNFINISHED BUSINESS 10a. Boards and commissions No business NEW BUSINESS 11a. Surface water management plan III It was moved by Councilmember Dorfman, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, to authorize staff to solicit proposals Councilmember Dorfman asked if funds from Sewer Utility Operating Fund would not be used to fund this project . Mr. Grube said that was the third level source for funding and in all likelihood would not be used. The motion passed 6-0 . lib. Bid tabulation Used motor grader It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Haun, to reject the bid of Midwest Machinery for a used motor grader and authorize staff to seek new bids for the equipment . Councilmember Young asked why used equipment was sought . Mr . Grube responded that a new motor grader would be $60, 000-$100, 000 more than used. He said staff sought a unit with a number of hours on it -- just like a used car, as it rolls out the shop the value goes down considerably. The unit is a long-term investment with the one being replaced some 30 years old. The motion passed 6-0 . 11c. Bid tabulation Two articulated tractors 44 City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994 Mr. Meyer asked if Mr. Grube would comment because some deviationIII from the specifications is being accepted. He asked him to cite the nature of the exceptions that are not material to the overall bid and indicate why the waiver of the non-material exceptions does not prejudice other bidders . Mr . Grube explained there were 5 departures from the specifications submitted by the low bidder. The reason staff accepted the deviations and recommends acceptance of the low bid is that the underlying operation is not compromised. He described the 5 deviations . It was moved by Councilmember Jacobs, seconded by Councilmember Dorfman, to accept the bid of McQueen Equipment at a cost of $82, 966 . Mayor Pro Tem Friedman asked the City Attorney if the deviations were material or not . Ms . Pace said the issue of materiality speaks to whether the deviations are substantial enough to prejudice other bidders. If the specifications had been for 2 doors and they bid 1 door, if everyone else had bid 1 door would their costs have been less or more competitive . Materiality and whether this is a minor irregularity is an issue for the Council to decide based upon input from staff who knows more about machinery than she does . III rnlincii , g nnn ^nrn nnenrla to bcs fncu .Pr �n whether these City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994 would be used. Mr. Grube said it is used from May 1 to October 1, on average about 6-8 weeks of operation. Councilmember Latz asked if other cities had such equipment on hand. Mr . Grube said he did not believe they do, that most municipalities do as St . Louis Park has done in the past -- rent the equipment . Councilmember Latz asked if it were possible to rent and share equipment such as has been approved this evening from nearby cities . Secondly, if Council does go ahead and decide to purchase, would it be possible to rent to neighboring cities any of the City' s equipment . Mr . Grube said the City has been in the habit of lending equipment to nearby cities, usually gratis . For example, when seal coating, trucks have been borrowed from Golden Valley and rollers from New Hope . Recently both Edina and Hopkins had borrowed City equipment to repair severe watermain breaks . Councilmember Latz felt the City could be making a more conscious effort to perhaps share in the purchase of these more expensive pieces with nearby communities . Councilmember Haun wanted to assure Councilmember Latz that 90% of the time when the City is using the equipment under consideration this evening, all the other cities are, too . He felt the City had a good, working equipment exchange program and has had for 25 years . He was not in favor of co-purchasing because of insurance aspects and the fact when one city is using it , nobody else can . But he was all in favor of equipment exchange. It was moved by Councilmember Dorfman, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, to reject the Tri State bid for the reasons as outlined by Mr. Grube and award the contract to St. Joseph' s in the amount of $33 , 409 . 05 . The motion passed 6-0 . lle. Bid tabulation Elevated water storage tank Resolution 94-39 It was moved by Councilmember Dorfman, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, to adopt Resolution 94-39 entitled "Resolution accepting bid and authorizing execution of a contract for construction of a one million gallon water tower. " The motion passed 6-0 . It was moved by Councilmember Young, seconded by Councilmember Jacobs, that a water conservation study as previously discussed 46 City Council meeting minutes March 21, 1994' at Council ' s study session be undertaken by staff . 111 The motion passed 6-0 . MISCELLANEOUS 12a. Damage claims Edith Fisher By consent, claim referred to City Clerk and City Manager 12b. Communications from Mayor Pro Tem -- None 12c. Communications from the City Manager -- None CLAIMS, APPROPRIATIONS, CONTRACT PAYMENTS 13a. Verified claims By consent, the list of verified claims prepared by the Director of Finance dated March 21 , 1994 was approved and checks authorized to be issues in the following amounts : Vendor claims : $293, 753, 31 and payroll claims $12, 251. 78 . 14 . Adjournment The meeting adjourned at 8 :30 p.m. g01/4 Mayor Pro Tem Friedman ��)1 recording Secretary 47 Transcript of remarks of residents re deer management program: A group of individuals was present to address the deer management issue and requested to be heard at this time. Addressing Council were Max Fallek, 8715 Westmoreland Lane; I have been a resident of St . Louis Park for 35 years; both my children attended Park High School, graduated; Park elementary and junior high schools; they both received advanced degrees and graduated with honors from law schools and are now practicing attorneys. We've been very proud of our community. My wife and I have both participated in many, many civic activities and civic affairs . I have served on the White House conference and advisor to the White House on small business in both the Reagan and Bush administrations and have recently been appointed under President Clinton by Senator Wellstone, so my political leanings relative to my business career are sort of unbiased. For you Mr. Latz I want you to know that I put my life on the line in the Korean war so that you and future generations like you including my own children could have a safe place to live and live in a democracy. And so when you ran for public office, the least I would expect that you would demand a high degree of honesty both from your other City Council members and that of your City Manager. For you Mr . Jacobs , who recently told me you recently visited the holocast museum in Washington, I too have felt the holocast losing many members of my family, extensive members of my father' s family. . .that is why Mr. Jacobs when the civil war in Serbia broke out, I extended myself to bring two families over here from Bosnia, the father of one of which was in a similar type of concentration camp . And the least I would expect from someone who has visited the holocast museum would have a degree of respect for animals and not herd them into pens where they can be slaughtered. For you Mr . Friedman, a member of the City Council for several years who I have long respected and have long looked at you with considerable esteem and admired, I would expect that you would not want your children to look out on the back porch and the back window of your house watching men in orange jackets chasing out deer followed immediately behind by a rifleman. I don' t know if you've been in the service and been in combat like I have been, but if you ' re wife would see a gun go off or a gun being carried within 20 feet of her home like Alissa Cohen here has and the Weisburgs, I think you would be extremely angry. If I recall correctly when the City of St . Louis Park applied for its shooting license, let me quote for your benefit Mr. Friedman and Mr. Latz, and that ' s why I talk about a degree of honesty because apparently Mr. Meyer doesn' t know what that ' s all about . . . AF: Sir, if you are going to cast asperions here tonight and you want to pick on people, I think that ' s beneath the dignity of this community and this city. Now if you want to make a statement of how you feel, you have every right to do so. Some of us may or may not agree with you, but you have to keep this at a decency level . I will not tolerate this . 48 MF : Well , in Mr . Meyer ' s letter he said the animals will be killed at the Nature Center through sharpshooting over a baited site . City officers who have been selected and trained will perform the shooting and secure the area around baited sites . I don' t believe chasing animals down and possibly shooting them in the open is under baited sites . I can only say, Mr. Friedman, I don' t know where your sensitivity is . And for you, Mr. Young, one who I supported actively, donating my time, knocking on doors on your behalf, using my office to call constituents in your area and not once asking you to support my particular side on this issue. The least I would expect you to do was to show respect to those constituents of yours who voiced their deep concerns and deep emotions rather than just being cast aside . After all, you were elected as a public official and it seems to me public officials, if they're elected, should be ready to listen and hear all sides . And for you Mr. Meyer my conversation with you on Saturday brings to mind. . . I can only say that my integrity is not for sale. You and I only know too well what was agreed upon in my office . I can only say that this is a sad day in the history of St . Louis Park. Thank you. Dave Rossman, 5707 Hwy. 7 . I grew up on Westmoreland Lane a number of years ago and I was there when the Nature Center was built . I was there during the big, huge fire that destroyed most of the Nature Center. I was there when it came back. And I think that the decision of taking out the deer in this way was first of all , I believe , too quick and the choice of that weren ' t discussed thoroughly enough. I don' t know that, I 'm not on your side of the table, but one thing I do know is that I was a five year old boy or five year old girl listening to gunshots in the backyard, I think. . .until I was 60, 70 I would never forget the shots I would hear . And St . Louis Park is not built for slaughtering. We are not built to have guns in this area or any area. But to have it in a nature preserve and the word preserve is to preserve whatever is back there . We ' ve taken the word preserve and thrown it in the garbage . We have no respect for nature and nature is going to keep on coming so what are we going to do in the future. Are we going to continue this? And if there is contraceptive ideas , why wasn ' t that available in the beginning and why was shooting the only course? I grew up knowing that when you have choices, look at them all thoroughly and don' t throw one away until you have discussed it thoroughly. You have a lot of people here concerned about their neighborhood and the places they live in. I did live there, I don't live there now. If I do go there to enjoy what has been developed because of St . Louis Park, the Nature Center. Now it ' s not enjoyable to go there because what ' s the use of going to a place and listen to shotguns and going to old friends and say, Hey, was eating dinner last night and heard some shots going off . It wrecked my dinner. It would wreck my dinner, too just hearing about it . And I would like to ask the Council , I know you ' re discussing looking for alternatives, I know your ceasing the gun shooting for awhile but I think there has to be other choices than what has taken place. It ' s a nature preserve, not a nature slaughter house. 49 AF: Thank you. Let me make one quick answer, sir. We did look at other alternatives, hard and strong. There are no proved methods that have been released by the FDA or anybody else . That ' s why the City Manager has asked that we look into that in terms of providing a source that we can work with people .So much of the publicity has gotten one-sided. We have met with neighborhood groups and we have looked at other methods. There are four other communities in this area that are doing the same. That is not an answer to do it . We had a serious problem here . We asked for a trap and transfer . We were not allowed to have a trap and transfer and have no other methods of doing it . This was the problem. You raise a good point and we are looking at it . Is there someone else who wants to be heard. I 'm Ruth Weisburg, 9020 Westmoreland Lane . I appreciate Charlie Meyer saying that he ' s going to take the attempt now, unfortunately we 've lost 30 of our deer, to stop this nonsense . Because we do have other options . There are many other options that we didn' t have the time to study as David said. Because we were ill from the shooting of the deer, we were home and we called a number of the organizations that deal with natural resources we ' re trying to preserve . There is immunocontraception. . .we don' t know enough about it yet; however there is immunocontraception. There is a new bullet tranquilizer being tested at this very moment which will put the deer out immediately just as though we killed them. Instead of killing them, they would have been tranquilized, put them on the trucks the same way and moved them. There are many areas. . . III AF : Mrs . Weisburg, may I stop you . We cannot do that . The DNR would not give us a permit, we have it in writing. Mrs . W: The DNR wouldn' t give you a permit because there wasn' t any place that you said we could move them. AF : No, maam, some of the reasons they gave, Mrs . Weisburg, I want the public to understand that this is not exactly true . We asked for a permit . . . they would not allow us to trap and transfer. There was a man here and there are some ladies in the audience that are not for what we did that heard him say that . We did try . They provided us with information on immunocontraception, there is nothing that is approved. Now we would be willing and we hope that if you have some other methods that are approved and available, let us know. Mrs . W: They may have told you about the study about 85% that would not survive . There was a doctor there that night , a veternarian whose name I don' t recall, who specifically said to Channel 11, when they say 85% what do they really mean? Well, he didn' t have an answer. . .none of us have an answer. First of all that study is 13 years old. There are other studies being done, none of which were documented before you made this decision. There are lots of things we can do with deers without traumatizing them and moving them. We were not given enough time . . . it was done all of a sudden, we 've too many deer, and 50 we ' re going to take care of them, we have to take care of them now. This happened over a number of years. . . it didn' t happen over one season. And here we are in the nature center with yearlings looking. . . and this was horrible because I went down Wed. cuz my husband Mort told me Al Friedman was going to be there and I wanted to voice my opinion directly to you and you weren' t there but one of the channels was there -- channel 5 . And they saw the yearlings looking disoriented.This is not the way we are brought up to believe . We are the voice of those deer . They did not create the imbalance in the ecosystem. We did. We put up a retaining wall and as a result of putting up that retaining wall, where Toyota is where the Pontiac situation is now, we changed the path of those deer. I spoke to David Gross who told me all about what happened. And he does, he ' s a rifleman, o.k. But he also respects the sanctity of life. He said because they put that up, they changed the natural path of the deer that live in Minnetonka, so what happened was they now come into our nature center. We have 36 deer in our nature center and all of our wonderful Council people here, I ' m sure are very good at math just as the rest of us are here. There are 36 deer in the nature center and we are told we ' re killing 40 . Now if you figure that out, where are the extra 4 coming from. The wildlife areas . I would not have opposed going into the wetlands where those deer live, o.k. , and picking a few of those off . But to stand in my backyard in orange fatigues as they did today and my daughter in a terrible state of emotion went out and screamed and hollered at them to get out of my backyard, literally, while on the other side of the fence, 20 ft . from my deck which is a horrendous site, I cannot tell you. And I know there are other options. We did not give ourselves enough time . We here in St . Louis Park are proud and as Charlie Meyer said there is a tremendous impact here and we could have made a tremendous impact on this entire country. How? We could have been the ones who said let ' s do an experiment . This study that the DNR is throwing at us is 13 years ago and this 85% is up to 85% and that also included the ones who were shot down by hunters, the ones that were transferred. Why weren' t we the ones who had the strength of mind or strength of attitude just the strength to say we ' ll try another way. And we will try to save these deer and we will do a study so that our children in the future we did everything we possible did to save a resource that has no voice of its own. To kill a mother who lasted through a miserable winter with babies and to leave the scripting on our children and on our neighborhood is irreparable damage . And I 'm not proud. And I 'm not proud we have a nature center behind our house, not proud at all . I ' d like to close the nature center. That ' s not a nature center. That ' s a slaughter house. We made the mistake of letting it happen. But we shouldn't have corrected the mistake by shooting them through the head. Roger Bordeau on Oregon Ave . I 'd just like to add a few things . As a society we close nursing homes down when they don' t operate right; when there ' s trouble at a bar we close it down; if there' s trouble in apartments we move to close them. I think she ' s right . If this is going to happen next year, it ' s time to consider closing our doors . It ' s all right -- businesses close their doors 51 every day. You see a sign up there : Opening soon under new management and new ideas . If we can' t come up with some new ideas and new management, this might be the time to consider closing it . It ' s environment that ' s hazardous especially to deer because whatever we ' re doing there we're producing nuisance deer that we have to kill . It ' s a bad environment just like a bad nursing home. It ' s o.k. , you can close your doors and maybe think it over a bit and say something to the effect that Sunday we ' re opening under new management and new ideas . I ' d like to say something else, too . I was at that court trial with the judge there and when he said for moral reasons I wouldn' t kill the deer, but the law. . .you know, personally for myself, Judge Lange, wherever you are, I 'd rather go on my morals. I 'm glad I didn' t study the law. I 'd rather have kept the deer than gone by my morals . And he also called them a renewable resource . As far as I 'm concerned, he ' s renewable, too. It was unfair. . . I didn' t particularly care the way he looked at it . All I ' d like to bring across here is I ' d rather not have studied law, I rather go out by my morals . Andrea Weisburg, 9020 Westmoreland. I don' t really want to talk about the deer . . . it makes my heart break . I look out the back yard and see all of that . But I do have a question for you. I know that Popham, Haik is a very expensive law firm and I know that our St . Louis Park people pay for that . And I know that we also pay for the police to shoot these door . So, I think it should be divulged, I think the people in St . Louis Park ought to know how much you are spending and how much you spent to kill those deer and how much all those lawyers cost us . And I would 111 also like to say that only 30 deer. . .not out of the goodness of you people ' s hearts, because the police officers were not told. We talked to them today. They' ll take as many as they can take. No matter what was in there, they' re taking them. I really think you ought to think about what you' re doing. Joanne Murphy, 4921 Vallacher Ave . I agree with you , Mr . Friedman, in what you said about the DNR, because I was here at all the Council meetings and was also at court . The DNR in my mind -- this is just my opinion -- is large part of the problem because there doesn' t seem to be a lot of creative thinking going on over there . They seem to be caught in a time warp from 50 years ago , but that ' s a different story. So, you don ' t have control over what the DNR does, none of us do unfortunately. But there is one think the City could control . I was up there on Wednesday about 2 : 00 in the afternoon . I went up to the scaffolding site that is behind and closest to the Nature Center building and there was blood all over the place -- pools of blood -- I don' t mean drops and I don' t understand why no one went out there and covered that with hay. I can' t understand it . I think it is at least one thing. . . if the City was going to do this, that was one thing, but they didn' t need to leave it so visible . It was just so insensitive and that bothered me more than anything. I guess I would like to know why they did that . AF: Thank you very much. I want to say that Mr. Bordeau and this lady are not in favor of what we ' re doing but they have been 52 admirable protagonists . I appreciate your input . . . they have been trying to help us with other methods and we welcome your support . If there is something new we can do, we want to do it . Mrs . Weisburg: I unfortunately have been exposed to a number of cancer situations in my family and you said it had to be approved by the DNR . There are many cancer treatments that are not approved, that are being used on cancer patients today, o.k. ? So I think a very creative program that would come from St . Louis Park that would save these deer and could be used in other communities would be looked upon with tremendous positive views from the entire country because a lot of people are having this problem. Why can' t we do that. Whatever we have left . AF: And we will try. Thank you I wish to thank the people who came . They have honest and concerned views. I do not appreciate getting death threats. It ' s one thing to have an opinion but when I get a death threat I do not cower and stand behind decisions I make, good or bad. . . I 've had to make a number of them in the 8 years on this Council and previously when I was Asst . City Manager in this community and on the School Board. I do appreciate that people have an honest difference of opinion as long as it ' s kept on a level that is civil . When it becomes uncivil, it becomes intolerable. I want to thank those people who called me and gave their names and addresses . We may have disagreed or agreed. We got calls from people who did agree with the program. For those that call up in the middle of the night and hang up and those who have death threats and for those who don' t give their name and address, I have little if any respect . When you take and denigrate a personality, I don ' t have respect . But if you have an honest difference of opinion as most of you have had here tonight, this Council respects it . We will work with you. We ' re going to try to find a better method but we are still responsible stewards of the community and the nature center. And we ' ll do our best . We may not always agree . But I want to thank you who came out tonight and those of you who sent letters signed with your name and address and the courage to give your telephone numbers to me so that I could call you back whether we agreed or not . Thank you much for that . Mr. Latz : First of all, those of you who called and left messages on the machine, thank you, I appreciate your input . For those who left names and phone numbers, I did call you back. Those of you who left messages but did not leave a name, I wish you would call me and leave a name and number so we can actually talk about the issue. I think there is a lot of information out there which you do not have and I ' ll get into that in a quick second. But I do want to say since Mr. Fallek attacked my integrity and I 'm not quite sure why, I 've made every attempt to consider this issue in all of its different dimensions, to read all the material that was available, and to bring my best judgment to this issue and I certainly appreciate your service in the Korean War to protect me from having to go into service. But I frankly don' t see what that 53 has to do with a decision on the deer issue . I have even more difficulty finding a link between the deer management policy and the holocast . The holocast was an orchestrated murder of 6 million Jews and millions of more people or other faiths and persuasions by a government against people that is very different from reducing a, deer herd by shooting deer . And frankly it cheapens the memories of those who were slaughtered in the holocast to link the two issues . Now, really briefly on the merits, I think some of the points ought to be responded to. One was the suggestion that this was not thoroughly discussed. This has been a matter of public record and public agenda for at least 8 months, possibly longer. There was a citizen task force which was publicized and many people had an opportunity to volunteer to participate on that . They had long meetings , staff had long meetings and that has been in front of the City Council a number of times . There was a lot of opportunity for discussion among the public . The question of contraceptives came up. There were two problems here . One was the current size of the deer population and the second was how do we maintain a reduced level of deer herd. Immunocontraception will not reduce the current size of the herd. All sides agreed including Max Fallek and others on the Save the Deer Committee agreed we had an immediate need to reduce the size of the deer herd. I have it in writing in a letter from Max Fallek. Immunocontraception will not reduce the deer herd. It is agreed we attempted to get a permit to trap and transfer the deer and it was not permitted. The Save the Deer Committee agreed it was necessary then to take the only alternative step, at that time, which was to use lethal means to reduce the deer herd. As to immunocontraception , the FDA - - the Food and Drug Administration - - Federal governmnent regulates use of those kinds of drugs . It is not available legally in the market right now. Hopefully, in 2-3 years it will be . If it had been, if it is . . .we will use it as soon as we can. It ' s not available right now. We don' t have a choice to go out and break the Federal drug laws . We do have . . . there was a question raised about studies, about a study being 13 years old and about us not having up to date information . There was a national symposium on deer management held in December 1993 and we 've got summaries of study after study after study. . . current and a little bit older, indicating the number of deer that die when you attempt to trap and transfer them into other environments if there were suitable locations to move them into . So it ' s not like we haven ' t considered all these options . We ' ve gone through all this information. This issue, as I 've told people who've called me, and I know the members of the Council share my point of view on this, we have always been open to considering alternatives . If there had been any alternatives available to present to us, I ' d like to hear them. We searched for over 8 months, many people in this community have searched, to find alternatives . Up until today, we have not yet found any viable alternatives to reduce the size of the deer herd this Spring and then to allow us to maintain the size of the deer herd at the reduced level . I hope, and with your help, that we will find some other alternatives . I think we ' re at the stage now that we are in a better position to preserve the nature center in all of its forms, not just the deer 54 that are back there but all the other forms of nature that live there. I think we' re at the point now where we can look again, we have some time now to look again for other alternatives and I hope all of you concerned about the issue will think about it and present those alternatives to Council and staff. Councilmember Dorfman: This has clearly been a very difficult issue for this community, for this Council and tonight , while those of you express your feelings about what ' s gone on for the last week, there are equal numbers of people who are at home in your neighborhood now who are applauding what happened over the past week. And while I don' t agree with that, I don' t want to see this issue divide this community and you have now heard from this Council that there will be no more reduction of the deer and I hope that we can work together to come up with some of these non- lethal methods and move on from here because this does not need to be an issue that divides this community. AF: There ' s a lady in the back who has not been heard yet . Do you want to give your name and address please? My name is Alicia Cohen, 8900 Westmoreland Ln. I just have a question and that is why was there a man with a rifle walking 20 ft . from the edge of my property today when I thought this was supposed to be done at a bait and shoot site. AF: I can' t answer that for you at this point, Ma'am. Andrea Weisburg: I have one quick thing to say. . .was anything looked at about shooting them where they don' t belong. It really bothers me they were shot in the Nature Center. Why couldn' t they have been shot where they don' t belong in the wetlands between 18 and 12 . AF: There are many problems shooting off public land, yes . The land that we don' t control . AW: That ' s not public land right below the school there. AF : You ' re talking over by Hwy. 169, right behind the school . That ' s a much more difficult task and there are a lot less deer in there. The problem we' re having is not out in those areas. The problem we ' re having is in the nature center . That is another matter . It ' s a valid question and I don ' t have the perfect answer. AW : The other thing I think should be looked at and if they needed to be shot that they could have been shot over in that wetlands is because it ' s away from the houses . I have been emotionally and physically disturbed by this. I 've lost business from this, I have not been able to sleep, eat, drink. I 'm very upset by this whole thing. I think that one thing was really not looked at and that was people . We are a resource, also and you took us for granted in that area. I am very upset and disturbed by that whole thing. I may have to seek help from this . If I have 55 to, the lawyers unfortunately are horrible . They wouldn' t even look at it cuz they don' t see money in anything. But they do see it afterward. And that ' s what they told me . I 'm very upset from everything that has happened. I could hear it . . . I saw this orange man chasing deer in the backyard today and I work out of my house so I couldn ' t leave and I really think the people need to be looked at from now on. AF : Andrea, I did get your call . I hadn ' t been home , I came directly to the meeting but I will call you back. Thank you for calling and leaving your name and number AF: Is there something new we can add now. Ruth Weisburg: I have to respond to Gail . I don' t think there is anyone home applauding this frankly, o.k. ? We had a petition go around and I don' t have the exact number but if I recall it was like 376 that did not want the deer killed. Any other option would be great . 22 said we want them killed if we know there is no other option. And that was the way it was signed. And we do have that petition. So that ' s what the people we managed to get to said and I do have the petition with signed names and addresses and numbers if you'd like. AF : O . K. , if there is nothing new on this . . . again I want to thank. . .anybody on the Council wish to make a statement at this point . Thank you all for coming, we appreciate your doing that . I 56